Danielle and Brandon talk about how they deal with the anxiety that running a business can cause.
They each offer some actionable tips that you can start putting into action after listening.


welcome back to the on business podcast
with tons of experience in different
Industries in Canada and the United
States Danielle and Brandon give you
real talk no-nonsense expert advice
about running and owning successful
companies here’s your host Danielle
Jenkins and Brandon White
Danielle Jenkins what’s going on today
happy Friday Friday we’re recording
Friday for listeners and I generally
record every Friday although sometimes
work gets in the way and we record
Saturday mornings don’t we we do yes
yes always gets in the way
I’ve always said
there’s anything to do with sales it
trumps anything no matter what
I do agree with that also
so that’s what happens but it is Friday
it’s been a good week I had a relapse of
caffeine last week when I was in Dallas
and I was drinking Diet Cokes from
McDonald’s and it
was not a good week here for me coming
out oh my God Brandon maybe not as good
maybe maybe my suffering is nowhere
close to Yvette’s suffering this week
um the yeah and and it sort of goes
together with today’s topic of talking
dealing with anxiety as a business owner
um I can add directly to that right now
um I’m not sure if you’re an emotional
eater or an emotional Drinker and I’m
not talking alcohol I’m talking maybe
like milkshakes or Diet Coke in your
um but there’s times and and I can get
into this after but there are times
where I’ve had a very
stressed for a couple hours anxiety is
so high I am about to pull my hair out
literally and like I eat very healthy
I’m a physical active person I work out
I care about my physical health what
goes in my body all of those things
there’s days where the anxiety is high
and I will go and get them a chicken
burger from McDonald’s that is my vice
and it’s bad and I don’t like it but
that just calms me for that quick second
and it’s not often you know it has to be
a quite a bad day but that that is a
thing for me and it’s not healthy so I
do try to do other things that are
healthier than going to and getting a
McChicken because we know how bad they
um but it just calms me for that second
but then I like this topic because then
we can share with people that don’t
always run to McDonald’s to get them a
chicken you can do things that are
better and I will share those so do you
have anything like that Brandon where
you to eat or drink something when
you’re anxious well I think that happens
almost to everyone although during covid
and I think we’ve talked or talked a
little bit about it but not the whole
thing is that I measure my weight with
the Fitbit scale that sinks to the
Fitbit app
I mainly do it because then you don’t
have to write all this down and it
charts it and everything and it seems to
sync well I don’t wear a Fitbit anymore
but the
during covid literally when the
shutdowns happened in the United States
you could see my weight
went up so clearly even as crazy strict
as I am with that stuff you you can see
that happen I I don’t
necessarily I probably do reach for the
food but I can also go the opposite way
and not eat so I think for me it’s just
when things are are fast paced like
right now we’re getting file finder
stood up the security company is taking
a new Direction into B2B type training
things and so it’s just it’s just all
day long we we just launched on business
here as a separate podcast out of the
edge I mean there’s just been a lot of
work that needed to be done so anxiety
goes high and for me what I’ve learned
is if I do not
if I go longer than 48 hours and do not
work out whether that’s a real
weightlifting session or ride my bike
it’s just not a good
situation for anyone last week which
just I think you mentioned it I was in
Texas I had 10 straight nights of
incredible sleep scores and then I went
to Texas it just didn’t dawn on me that
it was two hour difference I got caught
up going to bed at midnight but we
needed to get up at six so now I’m only
getting six hours of sleep I get a Diet
Coke because we didn’t have time for
breakfast in the morning with my friend
Jim and then
to get to the to his office where we
were working
and that just was a this is like a death
spiral and then this week coming off of
it coming off of caffeine is just awful
and Yvette said to me the other day
she’s like f word’s flying out of your
mouth all day long you’re on edge you
got a chip on your shoulder what is
wrong I was thinking to myself
what is wrong and yeah and sure enough
and this week which when I’m not on that
heavy caffeine I don’t need a nap in the
afternoon truthfully I mean I as long as
I’m hydrated I’m fine this week I
literally was laying down
I have a bison carpet that dampens the
noise in here in the studio and I I took
a nap like three days this week so it’s
the the unfortunate thing is and I don’t
know about you you mentioned chicken
sandwich like when you eat the chicken
sandwich doesn’t that
it sues you for a minute but don’t then
don’t you have more anxiety over eating
the calories that you just ate which
people probably say is like body shaming
or some but
um it’s just true right it is and that
was what I was going to get into with
the unhealthy Alternatives when you’re
dealing with anxiety because for me you
know say I walk out of a meeting
or something you know I just got a phone
call and there’s a fire somewhere and
you know I have to deal with it and I’m
going you know so I go
and I it’s like a drug you know you go
and get this McChicken and again I take
care of myself physically if I drink
coffee you know super late I don’t sleep
well if I don’t sleep well then I’m
groggy the next day I’m irritable and
then it’s just a spiral and it just gets
worse and worse and worse so I go and
get my McChicken I eat it
it honestly doesn’t even taste that good
I don’t know why it’s a comfort thing
for me but it is
um and I don’t need anything else from
McDonald’s it’s literally just the
McChicken sandwich and I eat it maybe
it’s that like oh I’m doing something
bad to take my mind I don’t know what it
is and then as soon as I eat it I go
okay when’s my next workout session
when’s my next Pilates session when am I
playing tennis next when can I take the
dogs for a walk because I’m
automatically now thinking that’s
great Danielle you have just you know
stayed consistent and been healthy and
now that my chicken’s going to cause you
stomach issues later on and you’re gonna
probably break out from all of the
grease that you’re eating and all of
these things that may sound silly that
also stress me out you know if I’m not
feeling 100
it throws me off I am a person that
needs to be 100 on my game all the time
and that is why I have such a strict
um process and schedule and things like
that when it comes to my life what I eat
how I sleep what I drink all of those
things like even my water bottle has as
like a time thing on it so I know when I
have to drink so much water and I have
that so when I eat the stupid chicken it
makes me feel like complete garbage
um and that heightens the anxiety right
because now you have even more external
factors that create anxiety
um is it a nice little break for maybe
five minutes when I’m super stressed out
and I’m enjoying that my chicken yes but
it really it’s not going to solve
everything or anything for that matter
so I think sharing what we do in a
healthy way that actually helps dealing
with these things
um that doesn’t create even more anxiety
is a good thing for business owners
because it’s so easy to fall into a
comfort thing and that comes with
everything when it comes to
entrepreneurship and business ownership
because if it was easy or if sorry if it
were easy everybody would do it and it’s
easy for everybody to stay in a
comforting situation
um there were times when I was first
starting my business
um I drank more I mean I’m not a huge
heavy drinker I am a heavy drinker
probably compared to you but I drank a
um and it helped me sleep
um I wasn’t doing it because I was an
alcoholic or I needed to quote-unquote
Escape reality but it was you know
you’re you’re working 20 hours a day and
I think I’ve shared this on the podcast
before where
um you know I would go to bed at
midnight I would wake up at 4am go to
the gym and then start my day and did
that for a long time but even though I’m
exhausted my brain was still okay what’s
next what’s the next project what do I
have to do here and it is kind of a
an example of anxiety
um and so I would drink more not because
I was lonely or anything it would just
make me go to sleep and so then I was
able to wake up after that four hours of
sleep and even though I felt rested it
totally wasn’t healthy
um so sharing the bad unhealthy things
that we do to kind of ease anxiety is a
good thing I think because it makes
people aware during that time I didn’t
realize that it was so bad and so
detrimental and so unhealthy for me to
drink what I was actually drinking and I
didn’t realize it was as bad as it was
or that I was doing it as much as I
actually was
um but then when I started
feeling gross and needed extra better
positive more healthy ways to deal with
the anxiety then I realized I do
not need to drink every night to go to
sleep I just need a healthy sleep
pattern I need to be able to work out to
shut off my brain and that’s exactly
what I do I you know I try to do three
or four Pilates classes a week I take
the dogs at least on a one or two sorry
on one or two walks a day and that just
clears my mind yes I still have to have
my phone with me but there’s nothing I
can do in that moment when I get a phone
call and I have to say okay give me 20
minutes I can deal with it then and that
gives me 20 minutes to just calm and it
just clears my mind because if you’re
constantly dealing with these stressful
situations Time After Time After Time
every situation gets worse and worse and
worse so you need that time to deal with
one kind of decompress and deal with the
um so physical activity is my number one
recommendation for anybody as a business
owner not only for physical performance
and mental performance but to deal with
the anxiety that you’re going to deal
with because a lot of is out of
your control
I agree so I had pulled up some stuff
while you were talking so we can offer
everybody some actual little protocols
Danielle and I are not doctors you
should consult your doctor before you
take any advice but we are sharing what
we do
I agree with you for me it’s exercise
the other I actually take a supplement
called l-thianine I may not be spelling
that I’ll put it in the show notes for
listeners but it’s spelled l Dash
t-h-e-a-n-i-n-e and it is
effectively a calming
non-protein amino acid specifically if
you look it up it says that it is a
amino acid that is found in tea it
promotes relaxation by reducing Stress
and Anxiety levels although l-thianine
is not a sedative and does not cause
drowsiness it may help improve Sleep
Quality by promoting a more relaxed
state so I take two of these every
morning and
to be
if I’m being
objective as I can be
I will tell you it makes a difference
between on and off now I will
acknowledge that it could be a placebo
placebo effect but I did I there are
some scientific studies that have been
done the other thing that I want to
offer listeners is
this study that I
actually pulled up I was
reading earlier this week I know that
sounds geeky but it’s
and I think listeners have heard this a
million times but you got to sometimes
just keep hearing it to realize I mean
even 15 minutes or a walk a two mile
qualifies as exercise I’m not saying
that you shouldn’t lift weights or ride
your bike or run because more vigorous
exercise can definitely have
more of an effect at least for me and I
think it does for you however just
walking two miles in a day can totally
change everything if you do it a few
times a week but this study was it was a
it was a paper it was published in a
journal and it was titled the benefits
of exercise for the clinically depressed
and it was done by Craft and perenna who
are both phds and I think this was
published in a journal of Psychiatry
somewhere it doesn’t say on this
specific copy that I have but I do the
the long and short of it is is they did
a study where they treated people with
for depression and and anxiety because
effectively anxiety will learn lead to
depression and business owners get
depressed all the time
so it’s actually the number one and I
started to interrupt but it’s actually
the number one group of people in
depression are entrepreneurs and
business owners
the that that’s just
a fact right and what this study did is
it took people on drugs
would put them on drugs it took people
no drugs exercise only exercise on a on
a protocol a few times a week and I
think it was 20 minutes or more I’ll
look it up here in a second and then a
combination of both and basically what
they found was that the exercise
outperforms or equals or outperforms
taking drugs and I’m trying to find
um treatment of clinical depression can
be improved by the addition of cognitive
behavior therapies and by exercise
research has also shown that depressed
patients are less fit and have Dimension
diminished physical work capacity in
order of 80 to 90 percent of predicted
Norms which in turn May contribute to
other physical health problems so this
is just a spiraling effect once you’re
in this
and I did I was trying to look for the
summary I should have highlighted it
earlier this week but I had read through
and it goes uh
oh here’s one I do want to read from
this research also suggests that the
benefits of exercise involvement may be
long lasting depressed adults who took
part in a fitness program displayed
significantly greater improvements in
depression anxiety self-concept than
those in the control group after 12
weeks of training the exercise
participants also maintained many of
these gains through the 12-month
follow-up period so this is just walking
and jogging and things like that the
bottom line is is
you’re gonna get you’re going to have
anxiety you’re gonna get depressed one
way or the other
entrepreneurs and business owners don’t
talk about it because they think it’s a
weakness but everybody has it for the
most part I mean I’m sure there’s some
people out there who are just way off
the Spectrum but
you’ve got to do something uh in general
I just think it’s physical exercise and
for any listeners or anybody out there
who’s saying well if you start worrying
about your body and you you and Danielle
have an eating disorder because you’re
counting calories I I have to
respectfully completely disagree being
healthy is scientifically better for you
um Having excess body fat outside of a
is not good for you it has
negative effects everywhere there’s just
I’ve never heard in general some
study that says being overweight is a
good thing and I think Society has
turned this well you can’t say anything
about that because you’re counting
calories or you’re worried about that
sure there’s an extreme where you get it
you’re you’re you have a disease and you
have to be or or a mental illness and
that happens but
there’s nothing wrong with wanting to be
in shape
and being healthy because the benefits
of lower body fat which are different
for men and women
are just factually true and you will
feel better so I I don’t know what to
say about that I mean that that in
itself causes me anxiety and I know
we’re not like I know on this episode
we’re talking about like business
um and how it leads to anxiety sometimes
you know there’s situations where it’s
completely out of your control you feel
like you’re in a downward spiral and
everything’s just going crazy
um but eating itself like I went away
this past weekend up to Muskoka
um gorgeous place up there and we ate
very well however I probably ate double
the calories that I normally would and I
ate more sweets than I normally would so
for example here um in the morning I
have a protein shake with my greens my
collagen peptides and my pea protein and
then an extra protein boost so I have
that for my breakfast lunch time if I’m
on the go I probably have another
protein shake or or I end up having you
know chicken or salmon with a salad and
rice whatever and I keep it fun I’m not
one of those people that eat plain white
rice and a plain old chicken breast I do
enjoy my food and then dinner I
typically will have you know a piece of
steak maybe some sushi
um you know I eat well I don’t kind of
deprive myself but I eat small portions
and I eat when I’m hungry however when
you’re up on vacation you know there’s
all these beautiful restaurants and you
want to take advantage of it so in the
mornings I was eating two eggs benedict
so you know a whole English muffin
um with female bacon smoked salmon
cheese Hollandaise sauce two poached
eggs with a ton of fruit and a whole
portion of home fries
some people would consider that in
healthy enough I mean it’s not like I
was eating you know deep fried whatever
however it was a lot of food I’d never
start my morning with that and so all
day I felt sluggish if I would have had
to continue to work or be on my Peak
Performance in a meeting or something I
wouldn’t have been able to because I
felt even more drained and people will
say oh food is fuel it’s not when I eat
that much I feel so drained I feel like
I want to sleep
um my my mental capacity is not there
and then you know then you have your a
la carte lunches so then we’re eating
um Crepes filled with sausage and gouda
and you know all this stuff and then
dinner time is a five course flipping
Meal which again it’s like a first world
problem because you know we’re very
lucky we can eat a five course meal with
lovely wine and stuff but by the time
nine o’clock comes around at night I
look like I’m 10 months pregnant or nine
months pregnant and and I’m exhausted I
didn’t even want to go for a walk and
that’s the problem I walk every night
um with the dogs I enjoy it it’s my time
it’s so nice I didn’t even want to go
for a walk around the resort because I
felt like
huge cow honestly and it was just down
to the sheer fact that I ate so much
um and I and I gained probably three
pounds over the weekend because of it
and so putting that aside you know that
adds a lot onto your mental weight or
onto your mental issues because then you
feel like garbage then you don’t want to
go for a walk then you feel bad about
your body then your mental state isn’t
positive and it’s just a downward spiral
but putting that that back into business
it’s it’s hard I get I’ve been there
where you know you don’t take care of
what you eat same with you I mean you’ve
been in business 20 plus years and you
lived on Diet Coke last week
um and there are times that we have to
do that when you know you’re on the road
you’re running around you’re doing a
gazillion things
but you do need to be mindful of it
because it’s easy to fall into that and
fall into feeling gross and then not
working out like I haven’t done Pilates
all week this week because it’s just
been hectic catching up from being away
for the weekend
um and I and I’m feeling it like I feel
exhausted and I can’t wait for Monday to
come around and get back into doing my
Pilates classes
um so it really does everything kind of
ties in together
um but one thing I do want to add about
um if you’re not a physically active
person I know you should be
um I highly recommend it that’s my
number one tip but another one for me is
um when I tried to get out of drinking
alcohol before going to bed to sleep I
found that my brain was still racing I
could not escape the oh my God okay this
this I gotta do this or what’s gonna
happen here and thinking about the what
ifs and what I have to do and things
like that
um so I started journaling I kept a
notebook beside my bad and half the time
I’d read it the next day and it wouldn’t
even make sense but I would just write
whatever is on my mind whatever I
thought I had to do for this project
what thought I had to or wanted to do
for another company whatever is on my
mind I just wrote it and that shut down
my mind because it was off my mind and
then I was good to go so that’s a big
um not only for going to sleep but just
in general I always always have my
notebook with me I go through probably
one or two a month and half the time
it’s just
stupid stuff that I’m just writing that
doesn’t even make sense that I really
shouldn’t even need to remember because
it they’re not applicable
um to anything but it helps it really
does keep my mind clear and then if it’s
not my journal it’s my notes app on my
phone so those are some tips there to
help with it
um especially when you are a business
owner because there’s just so many
things that you can’t control and you’re
going to think about because that’s who
we are we’re entrepreneurs and we’re
business owners
so I just want to say a few things as we
wrap up the episode one
I think it’s important in case we I as
I’m listening to you I’m like oh my God
we’re going to get clipped in social
media it’s going to sound like we have
body dysmorphic problems but I think
you’ll if you listen to this what you
really hear Danielle and I saying is
it’s not necessarily about what we look
like it’s how we feel and and being
healthy which is has a definition of
essentially lower body fat
or healthy body fat I should say within
your Norm of age and gender
that will make you feel better that’s
just science
number two
Danielle offered journaling which not
just journaling but just taking notes
because all these little things add up
to anxiety and I will put I use good
notes which is an app and I use it on
the iPad I’m taking notes as we’re
talking today it syncs to all my devices
put everything in one spot so I don’t
have stickies all over which creases
other anxiety which can add up uh then I
offer I offered and I’m not saying that
supplements are it but this l-thian for
me has has worked well and but beyond
is exercise in some form of it whether
that’s riding your bike for two or four
hours or even 25 minutes or walking on a
mile or two walk every day and getting
outside and it will reduce your anxiety
it is really important because these
things compound when they get out of
control and now you’re just in this
crazy spot and the truth is drinking all
that Diet Coke will allowed me to
survive last week affected me this week
so when you average the two together I’m
actually below
what my normal operating level is so
these things do affect you and it’s not
not to say that people can’t power
through it or it’s not that discipline
is is easy but the effects of doing
these things to lower your anxiety are
going to allow you
to accelerate and
achieve your Peak Performance in your
business and in your personal life so I
will summarize all that in the show
notes for us Danielle and uh if anybody
anything you can write us email us and
let us know what you think of
if you have something else that you do
that we could offer other business
owners out there
yeah for sure
um and you hit the nail on the head with
the physical exercise even for me the
days I’m not at my best or my my most
physical performance
um or I just have so many things going
on that I’m literally exhausted I still
get out for literally just at least a 20
minute walk it clears my head for 20
minutes my dogs get exercise and I get
it and there’s so many benefits to just
even walking
um so you don’t have to be in the the
most physical shape and that’s not what
we’re talking about here but just
getting out and walking there’s so many
benefits to just being outside and
walking listening to music or a podcast
so you can listen to us while you’re
um yeah we’d love to hear from everybody
so enjoy your weekend Danielle and rest
your week
bye everyone you too